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Maggie Leman
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Username: maggieleman

Post Number: 216
Registered: 07-2005
Posted From: 71.111.216.141

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Posted on Saturday, December 31, 2005 - 11:06 am:   

You can give the injectable orally just squirt it in their mouth. This is the slowest way for it to take effect but it sure is easier than sticking those tiny babies. They probably don't need anymore. Selenium deficiency can have many symptoms, some pretty hard to link directly to selenium without doing a necropsy. Selenium deficiency can cause weak muscles anywhere in the body. A moderate deficiency may only affect the leg muscles, a more severe deficiency can affect the heart and breathing muscles the muscles in the digestive tract that move food along (peristalsis). If any of these are weak then it creates a domino effect. A goat that can't move food along the digestive tract soon stops up, enterotoxemia sets in and bam dead baby. A goat with weak breathing muscles is set up for pneumonia a weak heart doesn't move blood well, possibly leading to hypothermia or oxygen starvation or at worse the heart just gives out.
Maggie Leman
Goat 911 Capri Medic
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Pam Martin (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 216.79.251.87

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Posted on Saturday, December 31, 2005 - 10:53 am:   

Thanks, Maggie. I would just like to add that my kids I lost before didn't meet the symptoms listed for selenium deficiency so I ruled that out. But anyone who has kids healthy when born and then stop nursing should definitely try the tiny Bo-se shots. .1 cc made a world of difference. Do you think I need to give additional though they are doing well now? Is the gel as efficient? I don't mind giving the shots but hate to stick those tiny little ones with no loose skin to grasp! Now I could cry thinking of those 4 beautiful babies that I might have been able to save earlier this year.
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Maggie Leman
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Username: maggieleman

Post Number: 213
Registered: 07-2005
Posted From: 71.111.216.141

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Posted on Saturday, December 31, 2005 - 07:30 am:   

Wow wonderful! I know getting the selenium and copper right in my herd sure made a difference. Amazing results huh? Glad the kids are doing so well. I bet their mom is pleased with her brood too. The does always seem so proud when their kids are healthy and playful.

I live in an area that is listed as borderline selenium deficient. Through blood testing I found my herd bordered on deficient, with the hardest working (highest producing) goats being more deficient. I give a supplementary BoSe shot to my whole herd twice a year (1 cc per 40 pounds), trying to time it for a few weeks before breeding season and a few weeks before kidding...Lots of people also give all newborns 1/4 to 1/2 cc at birth. Selenium is highly regulated now and most feeds and regular mineral supplements don't have enough added to really help those that live in deficient areas. You can give it orally too if you don't like sticking them...
Maggie Leman
Goat 911 Capri Medic
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Pam Martin (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 65.7.1.52

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Posted on Friday, December 30, 2005 - 07:16 pm:   

Wanted to update on the triplets...wow, what a difference the Bo-se made. This morning they were bouncing all over the place and all had full tummies. I think Bo-se will take care of all the kid problems I have been having. Thanks so much for all of the help offered.
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Maggie Leman
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Username: maggieleman

Post Number: 200
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Posted From: 64.102.64.113

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Posted on Friday, December 30, 2005 - 05:18 am:   

I give newborn pygmy kids 1/4 to 1/2 cc BoSe. I am in a selenium deficient area. It is toxic but not that toxic. It can take a week to be effective. They are a bit premature and that can make them a bit weaker. Babies this early don't have the ability to really regulate their body temperature well. Also I always be sure the colostrum isn't too thick to easily suck. I have had some does with very thick colostrum and had to milk that out, dilute it with milk or water and tube feed it to the kids. Colostrum is only very slightly thicker than milk and sticky.
Maggie Leman
Goat 911 Capri Medic
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Pam Martin (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 216.79.251.59

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Posted on Thursday, December 29, 2005 - 09:09 pm:   

In response to the previous posts, maybe I didn't make myself clear. All these babies have had in the way of treatment is Nutridrench, Probios, and two had Bo-se shots. They did nurse well, all three, the day they were born. All passed the meconium. I am prepared to tube feed if necessary but tonight all three had full feeling tummies. Possibly the Bo-se could have kicked in and they nursed while I was not present...as I said I am very ill myself. I did manage to contact a goat lady in a neighboring county who told me definitely our area is deficient in selenium and copper. She routinely gives her does shots of Bo-se two weeks before kidding. It is cold here tonight (30's down south is cold)but they are snuggled in hay with mom in an enclosed dog kennel under our horse barn. Their bodies feel warm to the touch. Haven't managed a temp but the ones I lost before had normal temps. Thanks for your advice...it is deeply appreciated.
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Violet Knapp
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Username: violetknapp

Post Number: 11
Registered: 07-2005
Posted From: 69.29.217.83

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Posted on Thursday, December 29, 2005 - 08:13 pm:   

Hi Pam, seems you are doing pretty much all you can. I would keep a close watch on their temps, if it goes down things start to shut down fast. And I have made the mistake of asuming that the baby was nursing, but was not eating. Sometimes it is nessesary to stomach tube feed just to make sure they are getting something. I'm not too sure about the 142 days, but I beleive that it is fairly common for a doe carrying triplets to kid a few days early. Maybe someone else has some ideas too.
http://www.angelfire.com/vt2/hilltopacres/
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Don (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 172.166.172.246

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Posted on Thursday, December 29, 2005 - 08:07 pm:   

I would have tried milking some from the mama into a cup then draw it up into a large syringe with a short tube at the end. Then hold the kid's head up and slowly feed it the milk and allowing it swallow while doing it. I mix a little corn syrup with the milk and make sure it is warm. I do this within an hour after they are born if I see they are not getting stronger. This should have done the first day so the kids would get mamas first milk containng disease fighting antibodies. Also try to keep the kids warm so they will not get chilled and more weak. At this point they may be overmedicated and not have an appetite.

Triplets many times come out weak or a little stunted whether premature or not, because they all compete in the womb for mamas limited nutrients while developing. Good thing that you have at least one doing well. I know its a stressful job trying to get weak newborns to survive. One of the forum medics should respond soon and give you better advice.
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Pam Martin (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 209.215.39.45

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Posted on Thursday, December 29, 2005 - 05:59 pm:   

Yesterday my doe gave birth to triplets... this was day 142 from her date of breeding. They nursed well, appeared healthy but a little weak, especially the two smaller ones that were born as kids #1 and #2. Third kid was stronger and larger. I am the same person who lost so many kids earlier this year...had necropsies done, no answers. Tried everything to keep them alive, electrolytes, lactated ringers, penicillin and naxcel injections. I since that time changed my feed, have minerals available free choice and even moved my kidding pen to a new barn with clean fresh hay, no other goats near by. Gave nutridrench to each kid at birth. Gave probios this morning. This morning on day 2, neither of the two smaller kids would nurse. They stand under mom and gaze off into space. The only thing I have not done is use Bo-se before so I finally got my vet to let me have .1 cc for each of the triplets. I gave the two smaller ones their shots but since the third one is doing well, I didn't give him a shot. Was this the correct dosage for pygmy babies? My vet wanted to give me more per shot but I know the stuff is toxic when overdosed. How long does it take for Bo-se to go into effect? I am hopefully thinking they show a little improvement tonight. I can't stay in the barn much to watch because I am terribly sick with sinusitis myself. Is there any thing else I am possibly overlooking? Is day 142 too premature... causing weakness? Sorry about the long post.

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