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Barbara Howard
Advanced Member
Username: bhoward
Post Number: 116
Registered: 08-2005
Posted From: 208.135.164.81
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 06:36 pm: | |
There is a product called 4-way acid pack made by Triquest boer goats that will dissolve the stones if you have it to give early on in UC cases it does work.
Barbara Howard
Capri-Medic
jamesa@mrtc.com
606-522-3388
KY
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becky guptill (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 72.73.73.13
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 03:58 pm: | |
Hello. I don't mean to intrude either, but I had two PET goats that me and my fiancee lost last April. They had gotten into our turkey food and the grit had made stones in their bladders. We had held him down and forced amm. chloride down his throat mixed with h20, because there is something that happens when they do not like the taste of something that is being forced on them. He foamed at the mouth and vomited and was in shock. However, amm. chloride would have been more effective had we known that we should not have forced it upon him. We were just worried that they weren't getting enough of it because they weren't eating their food (with it mixed). Just a tip, I'm no expert, just thought I'd share a heartbreaking experience that I hope doesn't happen to you.
(Message edited by admin on October 09, 2006) |
Don S. (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 172.132.144.173
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 11:25 am: | |
Just wanted to add a note about the ammonium chloride. From what I studied, when using high doses of ammonium chloride to treat urinary calculi, there is a risk of creating a fatal toxic condition. But the risk is worth taking because usually the alternative is death by the blockage.
For prevention, ammonium chloride for a grown large billy rate 1 level tsp daily in the feed, and proper diet as Maggie described. |
H. C. Sheldon, Jr
New member
Username: hcsheldonjr
Post Number: 1
Registered: 07-2006
Posted From: 4.249.192.228
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 08, 2006 - 10:35 am: | |
I'm sorry to intrude on this particular discussion, but I have no idea how to start a new thread on 411 except to go through 911, and this is NOT an emergency. I am trying to get some information regarding using ammonium sulfate instead of ammonium chloride. They are both aninoic salts, but can they be substituted safely? I don't have a problem now, but I want to know what to have on hand when my kidding season begins. Thanks for any help you can provide. |
Maggie Leman
Moderator
Username: maggieleman
Post Number: 781
Registered: 07-2005
Posted From: 71.111.216.141
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 06, 2006 - 07:03 am: | |
Hopefully the ammonium chloride will arrive soon. Here ia a homemade recipe from one of the articles about UC:
UC Treatment
1/2 red onion
Juice from 3 lemons
6 pods garlic
1/4 C distilled water
Bring to a boil then simmer for 15 minutes. Blend in a food processor and allow to cool. Drench goat with all of the liquid. Repeat treatment after 12 hours, then 24 hours, and every 48 hours (3x).
With just banamine you may not see any improvement. It does nothing to dissolve any stones. It is not one stone you are dealing with it very likely is hundreds filling the bladder. You need to take him off grain at least for now and his grain ration should be very reduced if he gets any at all after recovery. You might consider putting him on penicillin too the pooled urine in the bladder promotes bacterial growth and the injured urethra can become infected. Give 1 cc per 20 pounds by SQ injection twice a day until the crisis is passed.
You may see an improvement in just a few days once some of the blockage disappears. Be careful when kneading too, if you are just grinding the stones into the urethra without moving them along you are scarring the urethra and making it smaller. The bleeding indicates the urethra is being damaged. You will need to treat for several weeks to try to dissolve all of the stones and then prut him on a prevention program, INCLUDING PROPER FEEDING to maintain a calcium to phosphorus ratio of 2:1. Without a proper diet all the ammonium chloride in the world won't help. Many of these goats tend to block again and some have a genetic tendency towards this and may pass it to their offspring.
Maggie Leman
Goat 911 Capri Medic
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Ben Helms
New member
Username: benjam
Post Number: 1
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 66.32.145.15
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 06, 2006 - 06:09 am: | |
I have a billy that I am positive has Urinary Calculi. I (have) read several other posts on this issue and your goat appears to have all the signs; straining as if constipated, screaming, and barely dripping. When I knead him around the penile area, it is definately the problem.
There are no vets in our area that treat goats, however our equine vet was nice enough to give us Banamine. We started him on .5cc(.1cc/10 lbs.) twice a day(yesterday) and have ordered the ammonium chloride. In the mean time we have added vinegar in the water, and I have been kneading him before I give him the Banamine.
Is there anything else I can do for the poor guy, and how soon should I see an improvement? He is dripping at a pretty good rate and yesterday morning, he bled a little while kneading him.
Thanks so much for all the good info on here...
(Message edited by admin on October 09, 2006) |
Sandi Scott
New member
Username: sarasotasandi
Post Number: 61
Registered: 07-2005
Posted From: 76.1.0.155
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 23, 2006 - 04:49 am: | |
This little guy continues to puzzle me. I cut back his feedings and increased frequency, but he still strains and groans periodically throughout the day. My daughter says he sounds like he's in labor. He seems otherwise in good health and good spirits, grazing and playing with the rest of the herd. I'm just going to try not to worry for now, but if you have any thoughts on what is going on, I'd appreciate them.
Sandi |
Maggie Leman
Moderator
Username: maggieleman
Post Number: 709
Registered: 07-2005
Posted From: 71.111.216.141
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 10:53 am: | |
Yep mine do that when they gorge on milk. Feed more often and less. Sure am glad he doesn't have another problem besides being a little piggy! Watch that grain consumption, do not free feed!
Maggie Leman
Goat 911 Capri Medic
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Sandi Scott
New member
Username: sarasotasandi
Post Number: 60
Registered: 07-2005
Posted From: 76.1.0.155
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 09:21 am: | |
Maggie,
I followed him around for about 2 hours, and he finally peed! It was a normal amount and stream, so I'm thinking he probably doesn't have a blockage. I can't figure why he strains and groans so after each feeding. I'm thinking maybe he's taking too much at one time, so I will cut back his amount and increase frequency to see if that helps. I hate to switch his formula after all he's been through, but keep wondering if that's been part of his problem all along. All my other kids have done fine and even thrived on the same thing, but maybe his system just doesn't tolerate it. I also saw him drink from the water trough, so I won't put any more water in a bottle for him. |
Maggie Leman
Moderator
Username: maggieleman
Post Number: 708
Registered: 07-2005
Posted From: 71.111.216.141
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 07:52 am: | |
Giving water in his bottle even just a few ounces is not a good idea. They drink from the bottle because they think it is milk, which is food. At his age he drinks water from a bowl because he is thirsty. Too much water affects teh balance of fluids in the blood and can cause the red celles to burst. This will make bloody looking urine as the kidneys filter out the hemaglobin into the urine. He can't afford to be more anemic.
Maggie Leman
Goat 911 Capri Medic
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Maggie Leman
Moderator
Username: maggieleman
Post Number: 707
Registered: 07-2005
Posted From: 71.111.216.141
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 07:45 am: | |
If he is not peeing then giving water makes it worse. If he has access to the pellets all the time that could give him calculi. It is the feeds high in phosphorus (grains) that cause calculi...Better he has some alfalfa hay as his supplement to grass hay than the pellets, really.
If he can't pee the ammonium chloride won't help. They have to be able to pee some for it to help. If you have a knowledgeable vet he can check to see if the bladder is full and distended.
Maggie Leman
Goat 911 Capri Medic
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Sandi Scott
New member
Username: sarasotasandi
Post Number: 59
Registered: 07-2005
Posted From: 76.1.0.155
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 06:45 am: | |
Maggie, our poor little buck kid has been through diarrhea, constipation, pneumonia and coccidia, now he is straining and grunting after each bottle. I am going to try to stay with him today and see if he is peeing. I checked his belly, it is dry, no crystals. Would it hurt to drench him with ammonium chloride? He has access to a good quality pellet feed, grass hay, and browse, but I have been supplementing him with high quality alfalfa hay since he's had such a rough time. I've pulled the hay and started to give him a few ounces of water in his bottle between feedings to try to flush him out. If this fellow survives, it will be a miracle.
Sandi |
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