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Maggie Leman
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Username: maggieleman

Post Number: 173
Registered: 07-2005
Posted From: 64.102.64.113

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Posted on Wednesday, December 14, 2005 - 05:18 am:   

There's going to be some head butting but its not really over the baby. It's kind of a "pecking order howdy do look what I did" sort of thing. My herd is very protective of all of the babies and the other does won't hurt the kid. Put her out where she can brag about her baby. Exercise is equally good for the kid. I usually return the doe to the kidding pen at night for a few days so the kid doesn't have far to go to find mom in the dark of night if they get hungry.
Maggie Leman
Goat 911 Capri Medic
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Theresa Chandler
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Username: tchandler6

Post Number: 13
Registered: 08-2005
Posted From: 207.69.139.150

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Posted on Tuesday, December 13, 2005 - 07:35 pm:   

Thank you so much for all your help, Maggie. So, you think it would be ok to put her back with the herd? I was afraid that she would fight with the other girls thinking she needs to protect her baby and possibly hurt herself further.
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Maggie Leman
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Username: maggieleman

Post Number: 172
Registered: 07-2005
Posted From: 71.111.216.141

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Posted on Tuesday, December 13, 2005 - 06:54 pm:   

The preparation H is very soothing (ask me I know!). I often use in for does where I have bruised the vulva (outer opening of the vagina). It helps with the swelling and pain there just like it helps relieve hemorrhoid symptoms....

The uterus could be full of fluid from all the mucking around that was done in there, from any retained placenta, from the swelling and bruising from having kids pulled, from the swelling from the vaginal tear not allowing the after kidding gunk to drain out, etc. etc. The uterus is naturally full of something until it shrinks back to pre pregnancy size. If some swelling is keeping it from shrinking, she may be having cramps that are causing her to want to strain to relieve them...Once the swelling goes down, the fluids will drain naturally. A bit of exercise often helps too, let her out in the yard or even out with the herd for a while. Helps them fell more normal, promotes good blood circulation, and it seems like a bit of "gut giggling" gets things back to normal quicker than any medicine. Sounds like she had a tough time but is a real trooper!
Maggie Leman
Goat 911 Capri Medic
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Theresa Chandler
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Username: tchandler6

Post Number: 12
Registered: 08-2005
Posted From: 207.69.139.150

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Posted on Tuesday, December 13, 2005 - 06:42 pm:   

There are no kids still in there. There were 2 different vets that examined her on Saturday night; unless they both missed it. I have been giving her penicillin twice daily since Saturday. once Friday night. I have also given her banamine two different times. She is urinating. I have not tried the preparation H. Would it burn or irritate her in any way with the tear? What exactly would cause there to be fluids still in the uturus? Does that right itself by itself?
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Maggie Leman
Moderator
Username: maggieleman

Post Number: 171
Registered: 07-2005
Posted From: 71.111.216.141

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Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Posted on Tuesday, December 13, 2005 - 06:10 pm:   

Lutalyse does not make them want to push. That is not what it does. Lutalyse dissolves the corpus luteum which is the temporary structure on the ovary that produces the hormone that maintains the pregnancy. Once it is dissolved other hormones come into play ending the pregnancy. Oxytocin causes uterine contractions and should never be given more than 2 to 4 hours after kidding, the cervix has started to close by then and if anything solid is in the uterus it will cause the uterus to rupture.

She may still have a kid in there, up in one of the horns beyond where you were reaching. Hopefully this is not the case. She may be pushing because of swelling or lots of fluid in her uterus. If she were mine I would do an exam. Put on a glove, lube up really well and very gently reach in with one or 2 fingers to see if you feel anything coming through the cervix, like a foot. If you do get her to a vet. If not try giving some banamine for pain and inflammation relief. Once the swelling goes down she may drain off any fluid trapped in her uterus and stop trying to push.

Can she urinate? Could she be straining to urinate around the swelling at the vaginal tear? Try some Preparation H to take down the swelling allowing her to urinate easier. It is safe when used just inside the vagina. Banamine would help with this too.

Be sure she is on antibiotics too, pencillin or Naxcel twice a day for at least the next 5 days.
Maggie Leman
Goat 911 Capri Medic
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Theresa Chandler
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Username: tchandler6

Post Number: 11
Registered: 08-2005
Posted From: 207.69.139.142

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Posted on Tuesday, December 13, 2005 - 04:49 pm:   

Thanks Maggie for the info on the time frame for birthing. What do you think about the doe still trying to push at this time? Do you think it could be that she is still trying to push pieces of the afterbirth out, or that it could be from the swelling and discomfort of the tear in her vulva? I gave her the lutalyse last night, would she still be feeling the effects of the shot of lutalyse? And that may be making her still contract?
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Maggie Leman
Moderator
Username: maggieleman

Post Number: 170
Registered: 07-2005
Posted From: 71.111.216.141

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Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Posted on Tuesday, December 13, 2005 - 04:27 pm:   

The general rule is a doe should be pushing hard within 30 minutes of her water breaking, she should produce a kid within 30 minutes of starting to push, there shouldn't be more than 30 minutes between kids and about 30 minutes after the last kid she should pass her placenta. If the doe is pushing at all for 30 minutes without producing a kid she needs assistance. Four hours is way to long to wait. A doe won't push hard until something is in the cervix to stimulate her to push harder. The kids must have been out of position, would not come up into the cervix, so her labor was not progressing.. It never hurts to at least check as far as the cervix to make sure things are progressing...
Maggie Leman
Goat 911 Capri Medic
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Theresa Chandler
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Username: tchandler6

Post Number: 10
Registered: 08-2005
Posted From: 207.69.139.7

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Posted on Tuesday, December 13, 2005 - 03:39 pm:   

Had a yearling fullblood doe kid for the first time on Friday at 3:00 in the afternoon. The doe had to be assisted in delivering but never lost her afterbirth after 24 hours, and had a bad tear on the inside of the vulva wall. Took her to the vet which went inside to try to dislodge the afterbirth but said the membranes were too attached to do anything, so he shot some antibiotics into her uturus for any infection and stomach tubed her some fluids with electrolytes. Gave the doe lutalyse the late night after kidding, then oxytosin Saturday, with no luck, this is when I took her to the vet. As of Sunday, there is no signs of the afterbirth in the barn, which had dropped off from her. Gave her another shot of lutalyse 6 p.m. Monday, as of 6 p.m. Tuesday she is acting like she is still trying to push. Could this be pieces of afterbirth or possibly just from the swelling and discomfort of the tear? Never had a doe with a tear, so I don't know how they will act. She is eating alfalfa hay, drinking some water, picking at grain and really likes animal crackers, mainly the pushing this late date after birthing concerns me. Yesterday the vet said the pushing was good that if there was anything in there, she would push it out. I know there are no kids inside because of the vet's exam,also. This doe was in labor for 4 hours with very small contractions and small pushes before I went in to find the kids. saved one, lost one. How long do you let a doe be in labor especially if they are not having seriously hard labor pushing hard before you should assist?

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