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     kris bowman New member Username: kmbowman Post Number: 6 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 67.3.217.121 Rating: N/A |
UPDATE: All Doe's are back to berry droppings FINALLY. Kid #1 is doing wonderful still mostly due to his devoted mom and being so big since he was a single. He is certainly ALL boy. Thursday my sickest doe had triplets, all girls, yeah. They are very small and very weak. I of course was at the doctors, they wait and watch for me to leave before they deliver. So MAggie, again my teen daughters were here and found the tiniest kid by herself cold and mom not cleaning her at all. My 17 yr old that will NOT touch anything yucky actually stuck her finger in its mouth like i asked her too and it scared her when it was as cold as a "refridgerator". yucky or not she ran it into the house and rubbed, rubbed, rubbed with a towel and sure enough it warmed right up and when they took her back out to mom, she started loving her right away and let it nurse. The girls had already thawed the stored colostrum by that point just in case. Yesterday the next sickest doe, the first one to have scours delivered 2, a buck and a doe, quite large actually. she cleaned them and let them nurse but doesn't seem to quite get the mother thing. So one more doe left and i think she will have a single and she was the strongest and healthiest of them all while sick so i'm not too concerned about her. I have some concerns and will post in another thread . I just wanted to give an update and not leave you hanging. Thanks all for your help with our eating crisis. By the way, everyone knows that pigs stink.....well i think it is the food that makes them stink. becuase when the doe's ate the pig feed their burps smelled like a pigs behind! Even the neighbor noticed they smelled a bit awful for a few days. | ||
| Maggie Leman Moderator Username: maggieleman Post Number: 245 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 71.111.216.141 Rating: N/A |
The discharge can vary greatly from doe to doe. If she is comfortable, taking care of the kid and the placenta has passed all is well. The color of her discharge may change over the next couple of days and look more like what you have seen before. Maggie Leman Goat 911 Capri Medic | ||
| kris bowman New member Username: kmbowman Post Number: 5 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 67.3.213.70 Rating: N/A |
I have another quick question about the one that delivered today. When I got home she had him all cleaned up and dry and he had already been nursing by looking at her lopsided utters. She had passed the placenta, which I understand means there is no more kids in there. Right? She has a blob of clear mucous with the normal tinge of red. Is this normal? When momma had hers last year, she had red discharge (small amounts) that pretty much just kept her looking a bit messy but nothing alarming. Just a normal post delivery thing. She didn't have a real blob like this one does. Does it vary from doe to doe? thanks so much again. | ||
| Maggie Leman Moderator Username: maggieleman Post Number: 243 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 71.111.216.141 Rating: N/A |
Glad to hear things are beginning to settle down. Maggie isn't always right but she sure knows what her mistakes were! Maggie Leman Goat 911 Capri Medic | ||
| kris bowman New member Username: kmbowman Post Number: 4 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 67.3.213.70 Rating: N/A |
Update: Gave everyone their goodies last night. Of course the ones that were the sickest were the ones that fought it the most. The two that were showing signs of labor were the ones that after their veggie oil acted as if they were going to hack up a hairball. The long and short of it is that one of the labor does delivered a strapping buck this afternoon when I wasn't home. I had to run his daddy to the livestock auction. Fitting don't you think? He is healthy and his first time momma did a beautiful job of caring for him. They will be an inseperable pair thats for sure. I still have one showing signs of labor and she still has scours as bad as last night. One other still has scours and the two others don't have berries yet but at least they are improving. My teens will NEVER leave feed out again for them to get into I can gaurantee it! Thanks for your help maggie. you are a life saver. and yes, this little guy will get disbudded and banded. I promise, I learned my lesson with his daddy. MAGGIE is ALWAYS right. Listen to her.  | ||
| Maggie Leman Moderator Username: maggieleman Post Number: 238 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 71.111.216.141 Rating: N/A |
Yep the belch is certainly a good sign. You might try massaging the left flank (this is where the rumen is) to help break up any gas bubbles and help them belch. If you can feel or listen to the same area to see if they are having regular rumen contractions and watch ot see if they are chewing cud. They need to be having rumen contractions to move that stuff out and chewing cud is a sign they are feeling a bit more normal. You probably won't be able to get the antitoxin at the feed store, it is expensive and most feed stores don't carry it. I always keep some on hand you can order it from Jeffers or Valley Vet. Won't be there in time to help these does but you'll have it for next time. Yep hay only until they are back to normal, even if they do kid. They have enough reserves to do fine for quite a while without needing to feed them grain. Give a probiotic to replenish the digestive microbes, they have taken a HUGE hit. Check on them later. If you can monitor their temps, a fever indicates the enterotoxemia is progressing. Continue the penicillin, the soda and the milk of magnesia. I was thinking of you just the other day. I am headed west again next week to our January NPGA board meeting in Las Vegas this year. Let me know how things progress. As you know the white discharge is her mucus plug passing. Kidding is probably not far away. Maggie Leman Goat 911 Capri Medic | ||
| kris bowman New member Username: kmbowman Post Number: 3 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 67.3.211.22 Rating: N/A |
Thanks Maggie! I'm sure you don't remember but one of these does is one of our first two that were born last year to our rescued does. My teen DD's called you on the phone for instructions becuase i was at the hospital with hubby. ou sure know how to calm all of us down when we are all frantic. you have a gift! We "captured" the cranky ones and gave them all veggie oil, pennicillin, more soda, warm water(they love) and milk of magnesia. Two of them walked away and started gagging like they had a hairball. I haven't seen this before? Our "baby" from last year is the one that was "talking" strangely and as of tonight she has no ligaments and still has white discharge. She is one of the ones gagging. However after she got the oil, she let out the biggest stinkiest pig poo, smelling belch. Good sign? Should I check them tonight later? Thankfully we are in Arizona so our temps are in the 40-50's at night. I only have tetenus antitoxin and CD&T toxoid, so will have to pick up when the feed store opens in the morning. should i keep them on Hay for a few days and start them on grain again only if they have berries again or have delivered? thanks for you help! kris | ||
| Maggie Leman Moderator Username: maggieleman Post Number: 235 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 71.111.216.141 Rating: N/A |
Give Milk of Magnesia instead of the pepto to help clean the digestive system out and counter acidosis. DO NOT TRY TO STOP THE DIARRHEA!! The pig feed has to be passed out as quickly as possible. Give 15 cc of the Milk of Magnesia per 100 pounds every 4 to 6 hours until the stool goes back to something more normal. Keep giving the baking soda to counter any acidosis. If you have penicillin start that too at 1 cc per 20 pounds by SQ injection twice a day. If you have CD antitoxin (this is not the vaccine but is used in actual cases of enterotoxemia to counter the toxins that are produced by the clostridial bacteria), give it at the therapeutic dose (check the label). Treat for bloat as needed by giving vegetable oil (about 1/4 to 1/2 cup by turkey baster). Be prepared for weak, premature kids it sounds like at least one is beginning labor. Do not feed any grain for now or for the next several days, only clean hay and plenty of water. They all have a case of enterotoxemia, the diarrhea is one symptom, not wanting to get up, the little peeps may be from pain (or could be baby talk because she is in labor). Pig feed often contains urea, a cheap source of protein and is very bad for ruminants. Please take steps to see this doesn't happen again. Anytime a goat gets into more feed than they usually get begin treatment for enterotxemia immediately by giving baking soda (to control acidosis), Milk of Magnesia (to clean them out) and antitoxin. Let us know how you are getting along. Maggie Leman Goat 911 Capri Medic | ||
| kris bowman New member Username: kmbowman Post Number: 2 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 67.3.211.22 Rating: N/A |
I have 4 does that got into the pig feed last night. Thank goodness we only feed UNmedicated just in case of an accident like this. The long and short of it is that two had scours this morning and by this afternoon, all 4 do. At this time 2 of them have white mucous from the vulva and one is acting as if she may be in labor. Yawning, stretching, pawing, shaking her head, keeping herself separated from the rest. The other with mucous is laying and not wanting to get up, although she will if I encourage her too and is making the strangest little peeps of talking noises. Of course neither has ever acted like this. Oh and lots of tail shaking happening. The one with the worst scours looks as if she is getting hemmoroids and is just exploding like a volcano. I have never had it this bad. Last year our one doe delivered quietly and quick. I am not smelling any sweetness that is noticible. I gave baking soda and am on my way out with some warm water, probios and pepto. Anything else I should do or worry about? OF course their nice hay covered sheltered (new hay yesterday) is totally exploded and full of poo! | ||
| kris bowman New member Username: kmbowman Post Number: 1 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 67.3.180.109 Rating: N/A |
I have 4 pregnant does that are due any day. they got into the pig feed last night. (yes I keep it away from them but DD didn't listen and left it in the pasture where the goats could reach it. So far I have 2 that have scours, naturally, and one of the 2 has started with the white discharge and moaning I beleive with contractions. This doe will not let anyone near her so she is hands off pretty much. The other doe is as big as a house today and has scours the worst and looks as if she is having constant bowl contractions to purge the feeds. I'm worried about Ketosis but can't get to their mouths. Can I smell the sweetness in their poo? Do you think its just coincidence that the doe is likely going into labor as a separate issue from the scours? |