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     (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From: 68.184.141.80 Rating: N/A |
5:00 pm ok - just checked on her and she IS out in the pasture with the rest of the gang browsing. 4:00 pm As I said - she is skittish. All this worming has made her even more leery of me. I have never taken a temperature before and have no idea how to do it. Nor have I given injections. I don't want her to be frightened of me even more... I just went to the barn and she ate more alfalfa hay and a little bit of grain, so she is not completely off feed. She is also not exactly away from the herd, as she has her babies with her. Before she kidded she was open mouth panting all the time. I was worried then and I asked a very experienced neighbor with toggenbergs and he said that it was common for his togs to pant when it was hot. Am I correct in saying that the only way I will know what is going on here for sure, is to take her temperature? Maggie - you are so helpful, I'm sorry I'm taking up so much of your time, but I really can't bear to see any animal hurting, and I have no experience with this - so I have to bend your ear a little more... The breathing is raspy, through her nose mostly with occasional open mouth breaths - I'm not sure if I'm describing it correctly when I say 'labored'. But I can hear her loudly and it seems fast - but again, I don't know. It's as if you or I had a cold and we were stuffed up in the nose. Concerning the eyelids. Am I looking at the right place? I've read something about an inner lid. I am just pulling down the lower lid and looking at the inside of the lid. The poop is green and not formed in pellets like normal, but in a clump that's pelleted somewhat. I was going to place an order with Jeffers today for the Dimethox for the kids preventative as well as the herd's coccidia - of course will be getting the wormer you recommended as well. Is there anything I should order for this resiratory problem or just ask the vet for the Naxcel? Yes - PLEASE send me the medicine list. Do you think I should start treating her NOW? Or wait to see how things go and to see if she has a temperature? Is this pneumonia? Is so, what causes it? Do you mean follow manufacturers recommendations for the goat chow or the goat minerals? They seemed to like the minerals fairly well, yes - especially at first. I plan to also order Sweetlix goat minerals today and start using that instead of the Purina. I've heard good things about that. Maggie - again I'm sorry for taking so much of your time. Thank you, thank you for your help - I'm worried sick... | ||
| (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From: 68.184.141.80 Rating: N/A |
Maggie - I have sent you a private message to the msn address - couldn't send otherwise | ||
| Maggie Leman Moderator Username: maggieleman Post Number: 632 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 71.111.216.141  Rating: N/A |
She is sick. Any goat off feed and nursing kids is sick especially if she doesn't want to hang with the herd. Take her temp, normal is 101.5 to 103.5. With even a little open mouth breathing she may be coming down with pneumonia and will need antibiotics. Allergies may make her nose and eyes water a bit they don't put a goat off feed or make them not want to go out and don't cause labored breathing. I am glad the eyelids have color, optimally they should be deep salmon pink. Is the poop normal yet? On that Goat Chow be sure to follow the manufacturers recommendations. Are they utilizing the mineral well? Some goats (mine) found it too salty, it is 55 percent plain salt...I personally like Golden Blend or a good beef cattle mineral better. I just hate paying Purina alot of money for a pretty bag of barely average feed product. Most vets don't know much about goats, thy weren't taught ANYTHING about them in vet school if they even saw a goat in vet school. Until very recently goats were not considered to be an animal of economic value and even though they are now becoming more valuable it is hard to fivnd someone to TEACH goats even to vet students that are willing. The www.fiascofarm.com website has a very good medicines chart (except for the recommendation for ivermectin which I take from the University of Florida Vet School recommendations for goats in the SE US). As I said I prefer Naxcel for respiratory infections. With Naxcel give 1 cc per 50 pounds by SQ injection twice a day for 5 days. Give a double first dose (called a loading dose). There is alot of resistance to penicillin, oxytetracycline (LA 200) the drugs most often given by vets and sold at feedstores. Many goat farmers recommend Tylan 200 (an over the counter drug) and I have used this one with good results but the injection is often painful (but they get over it). I have a knowledgable vet bu the main thing is to have a willing vet especially one that you may be able to get drugs from. A while back I made a list for another new goat keeper of the things I keep in my pharmacy. If you would like the list email me privately. Most of it you can get from on line livestock supply companies for ALOT less than vet or feed store prices. Maggie Leman Goat 911 Capri Medic | ||
| (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From: 68.184.141.80 Rating: N/A |
Hi Maggie As I suspected, I've been making the problem worse with under-dosing. It's frustrating because these dosages were vet recommended. I just went out to check on everyone, and looked at their eyelids. I'm not sure if I'm doing it right, (just pulling down on the lower lid) and everyone is rosey pink. I'm sorry I confused things by telling you they were on a big pasture - I included that to let you know they were not in a small parasite infested paddock. In addition to forage the dry does get 2 cups of goat feed twice daily as well as grass hay (which they aren't interested in much right now) and Andi, the lactating goat, gets grass hay, some alfalfa hay and about 6 cups of goat chow, twice daily. Thay also have free choice to baking soda and Purina goat minerals. I was wondering - could this be as simple as allergies? We have a lot of pollen in the air right now. Andi is breathing labored and congested through her nose for the most part with an occasional open mouth (bigger) breath. Her eyes are a bit watery and she has a little clear discharge from her nose. Also, I broke open a new bale of alfalfa for her last night as well as a new (same brand though) bag of feed. She has eaten some grain today and some alfalfa, but is choosing to stay in the barn rather than go out to the pasture to eat today. But, she always seemed to have a problem wth heat - because she's a tog? Does any of this information change your thoughts on my situation? I really appreciate your help and will certainly follow your recommendations on worming and coccidia treatment. Thank you. | ||
| Maggie Leman Moderator Username: maggieleman Post Number: 629 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 71.111.216.141 Rating: N/A |
You have been seriously underdosing nearly all the worm meds. Safeguard is largely ineffective in this country for deworming goats. The current recommendation for those using Safeguard is to give 1 cc per 10 pounds for 5 days and repeat in 2 weeks, or about 4 to 5 times the horse or cattle dose by weight. The "New" Safeguard for Goats is EXACTLY the same as the OLD Safeguard for cattle with a new label. The dosing on the label is the same as for cattle. It is a marketing ploy by the company to sell their dewormer to goat farmers. Yes the FDA determined that it wouldn't kill goats at this dose, but the FDA doesn't have to say whether the drug is effective. Safeguard stopped working on my farm years ago at any dosage. And with the serious under dosing you have been lead to do it won't work anymore for you either. I would give the ivermectin injectable for cattle and swine at 1 cc per 25 pounds orally for 2 days and repeat in 2 weeks. Be ABSOLUTELY SURE to give enough (dose for 100 pounds), it is safe at 25 times this dose. Underdosing WILL make the parasite problem worse and its already bad enough. I would treat the goats for coccidia giving 1 cc Dimethox per 5 pounds for 5 days. You must be sure to give enough, you must be sure to treat for 5 full days. It is probably the stress of the parasites the move to your farm and likely an ongoing mineral deficiency and change in the weather that is causing any respiratory disease. If the goat is otherwise fine, eating and drinking the respiratory disease is likely a virus. If the mucus discharge turns yellow or green, or the goat runs a fever (normal is 101.5 to 103.5) then you likely will need to start antibiotics. I prefer Naxcel, but this is a vet prescription. Please provide a mineral supplement for your goats. A loose mineral works best their tongues are too small and too smooth to use a block well. I recommend finding a beef cattle loose mineral with 900 to 1500 ppm copper and 3000 to 5000 ppm zinc. Any feed or mineral labeled for sheep and goats does not have enough copper for goats. You may need to introduce hay and a grain feed, especially for the new mother raising kids. Forage especially at this time of year is not enough nutrition. These goats are still quite young and still growing themselves. Maggie Leman Goat 911 Capri Medic | ||
| (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From: 68.184.141.80 Rating: N/A |
I have 3 goats (well, 5 now with new kids). They have a very large pasture to graze in, but there has been a lot of stress with bringing them here and also adding a donkey into the mix. All are about a year old. All weigh between 75 and 85 lbs. 2 are Nubians and one is 3/4 Tog and 1/4 nubian. This is the goat I am most worried about - Andi. I bought her bred (unknowingly) and she is also a skittish goat. History: Andi is pregnant and her poop is pudding consistency - olive green. March 16 wormed all does 4cc each, Ivomec eprinex pour-on. Andi poop is softer still by the 19th. Gave her 16cc kaopectate for horses and 10 cc scour halt and took a sample of poo to the vet. 3/20 - vet says she is full of worms. Wormed her with safeguard gel for horses for 120 LB weight, 3 days in a row along with 10 grams probios. Still soft poo - another fecal. Vet says worms are improved a little (Andi and one nubian both were checked) but she saw coccidia present. 3/30 - wormed all goats with 2 cc safeguard for goats. 3/31 - wormed all goats with 2 cc safeguard for goats and Andi kidded. 2 healthy baby boys (ok we got through THAT!) 4/1 - wormed all goats with 2 cc safeguard for goats. (this was the recommendation from the vet). 4/7 - Andi and the other Nubian still have soft poop - not runny, but certainly not berries. Vet recommends Quest wormer for horses (moxidectin?) and measures me out a dose (I believe it was about 1 cc. ) I gave this to Andi and also wormed the Nubian 4 cc of Safeguard for goats. Gave each 5 grams of probios. Jsut for good measur, gave 3rd goat 4cc safeguard for goats + 5 grams probios.My main concern is that I am giving a lot of worm medicine, but I am underdosing. ALso, the little nubian has had a dry cough ever since she arrived here (they all came here around end of February). Could this be lungworms? I had the little boys disbudded at a reputable goat person's farm 2 days ago. Last night I noticed Andi is congested - breathing like she has a cold. Otherwise doing well.So my questions are these - should I worm them all again with One cc per 25lbs with Ivermectin Injectable for Cattle and repeat again in 10 days? Should I also treat them all for coccidia as well or will they become resistant to that medication (Di-Methox) if they don't have a bad case of coccidia? If I should treat for that - what is recommended? Could the respiratory problem be kidding related or even something the kid's brought home from the other farm? I am very worried and can't seem to get a handle on this situation whatsoever and I have only had goats since February! Please help. |